COP26: New global climate deal struck in Glasgow

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for those of us who do follow these things uh do excuse me but some of this is quite dry to the rest of us the layman like me i'm struggling to follow every section and subsection and all the numbers and letters that follow them uh richard black is with me and catherine abreo the executive director of destination zero um.

we'll keep listening because there will be a finale to this and we should tune into that but catherine i want to get your thoughts you were you were very animated the other day on on the stage when the third draft of the text came out and right at the death tonight we've had another change in that critical section about coal an intervention from india phase down, instead of phase out coal what do you make of it.

yeah, that's right so i think it's really interesting that the final hours of cop26 have come down to this like show off over language related to phasing out unabated coal power and inefficient fossil fuel subsidies which really goes to show you how much that language as weak as it already was is quite precedent setting in this space so we've now had a shift because of india's reservations with the existing text from phase out to phase down.

a lot of countries expressing their disappointment with that change getting on record that they would prefer for it to be stronger, but in all honesty i'm, you know while it is true that we should have been phasing out coal-fired electricity a decade ago.

i don't know that this change really makes a huge difference in the end what we've got here is a wedge in the door of accelerating the energy transition in this space and so what we're going to have to do over the coming years is really pull that door more open that's really interesting so you you are actually half glass full the fact that that section is in there that's

groundbreaking in and of itself for you it is for this space like i said so you know we had this conversation a couple of days ago right that for over 30 years we've been entering into these negotiations year after year there have been previous attempts to include language around phasing out fossil fuels in this space that have been totally squashed and finally we get a little bit of that text surviving i think the important thing to reflect on is that the energy transition is ongoing out there in the real world as are the movements of people across different sectors who are trying to accelerate that energy transition and whatever gets said here or doesn't get said here doesn't stop all of that it's just important that we make sure this process somehow reflects it and again we've taken a little step in that direction today it will be amazing richard to many people out there who are watching given what we're talking about and that is fossil fuels that it's never appeared before in the text i think.

 catherine actually said you said to me the other day it's a bit like talking about the cavity pandemic without actually mentioning the virus completely it's actually central to what we're talking about and it's the first time it's appeared in the test i know it's bizarre isn't it when you look at that point of view i mean the reality is of course that a lot of governments haven't wanted it to appear i mean you think about saudi arabia for example you think about some of the other gulf states you think about australia where the government still seems to believe it can plot an economic future on coal exports and they simply haven't wanted it included there is a dichotomy actually in the way that these governments treat that part of the science that deals with climate

 impacts and the way the world is warming and how they treat that bit of the science that tells you how to get out of the problem because we see in the text here are lots of references to the science impacts of two celsius impacts of 1.5 lead for you know urgent mitigation well then you look at the mitigation bit the the bit for example of the intergovernmental panel on climate change that deals with how to get out the problem how to reduce

 emissions coal phase out is all over it as by the way is oil and gas phase out and that's probably the next battle line over fossil fuels here which i guess may we'll be starting next year and just a word about alex sharma because he didn't pause it was an emotional moment and uh he had to just stop and we should mention that because it it all of this rests on his

 shoulders as the presidency i said earlier in the day actually he's not here as boris johnson's servant he is a servant to all 196 parties that are here and he has to find a landing zone for all of them but it did strike me i was watching as they were going around the room we were talking in the before the plenary the formal plenary

 started he went up to the indian delegation and he actually showed him the text and he pointed to a word and it must have been the moment that they had to change the word and then all hell broke loose, because john kerry wanted to get involved then and then the chinese,

delegation you heard the anger actually from the european delegation in the room and it it really did go down to the wire yeah this kind of diplomatic stuff does often happen at the conclusion of one of these cops we've seen other other cops before where you know there's a small huddle of a key country and someone comes up with the key piece of language that allows

 everyone to to get out the room i think the other thing that this says about alex sharma is that he's he's gained the trust of these delegations over over the past year and this is a really important thing to do because you know if if there's a personal relationship there if the negotiator trusts trusts him a bit and he trusts the negotiator and you know that then that that that that means an awful lot in terms of getting the deal over the line what role

 has he played catherine in the you were telling me um about you know the un representatives and the role that they've played in this out of sight what role has he played specifically as as the key sherpa so it is the role of the president to take

control in this moment where we're trying to get through those decision texts and really guide the parties into a consensus-based outcome but i think we've seen in the past there are some presidents who really drive that outcome to as much ambition as they possibly can we were talking earlier about those moments when

 we've seen a cops of presidents just gaveling through despite seeing hands of opposition being raised in the amongst the parties and we've seen other presidents who've taken a less confrontational route who've maybe sought consensus on a lower common denominator basis i think here you know we've really seen that alex sharma was committed to getting some of this important language committed to by the parties to figuring out how to make deals and how to make sure that everyone was on board with some of those

 language some of those pieces that that you know people had concerns over the language around what was just before we came away from um the room there one of the things that was quite interesting and and i i was asking a guest earlier where the climate road show goes next and obviously there's disappointment about a dialogue surrounding loss and damage and the fact that financial

instruments for adaptation aren't there but already you've got countries volunteering so hey we'll host we'll host a workshop to to get this on the road and so it it does move quite quickly yes it really does and by the way there's one other thing being here in glasgow that we should flag up at this point this process for agreeing the global goal on adaptation glasgow now

has its name on it so we've had the paris agreement we've had the copenhagen accords earlier on we have the bali road map we now have the glasgow chamomile shake work program on the global goal on adaptation right so whenever adaptation is mentioned basically glasgow will have it on it yes exactly this is quite an interesting thing i think that's going to happen so for in the paris agreement from six years ago we will uh develop a global goal on

adaptation has it really been uh clear what that means and for six years it's been an abandoned but now within two years we're going to have this i think we can we can we can get some of the idea of the importance of it by looking at things like the millennium development goals and then the sustainable development goals where there's a lot of technical work that goes on which is useful to everyone and it also mobilizes donors it kind of focuses their attention on okay this is the goal

therefore this is where we're going to need to spend some money so hopefully in two years we might have one and then it won't be the draft uh glasgow i think it will be the real glass together alex said at the outset of this that look it's not it's not the perfect document uh it's a big compromise there will be disappointment it depends where you stand on whether you see this as a successor or a failure but really the

 argument's more nuanced than that isn't it there's a bit in it for everybody do you see in it uh the road map to charm and and the the signposts along the way to 2025 i guess that that tells you that this decisive decade we are moving now in the right direction so we did get a little bit of that right i mean i think something to really

 acknowledge about the text that we have now is that it has clearly identified the end goal which is holding warming to 1.5 degrees celsius and so we've seen okay we're here at cop26 united to drive toward that goal have we seen though a reflection of the scale up of effort that is required to deliver on that goal we have a little bit of the rhythm of of ndc enhancement which is countries being called back to increase

their climate pledges there's now an expectation in there that countries will increase their climate pledges before the end of 2022 we have a little bit of an indication of when countries are going to be expected to come back and communicate more measures more

 policies toward achieving their goals so i think that is positive and let's also dwell for a moment on the fact that we've had more of a conversation on loss and damage in this space than we've really ever had before at a cop and i think that's good news okay i'm nervous that we're going to miss the the finale uh the big event

when the hammer comes down for the last time so let's go back into the room and just listen to some of it to adopt the draft decision as amended hearing no objections it is so decided i invite the cop to consider sub item 8d report of the global environment facility to the conference of the parties and guidance the global environment facility for 2020 and 2021

i now invite the cop to adopt the decision entitled report of the global environment facility to the conference of the parties and guidance to the global environment facility contained in document f triple c stroke cp stroke 2021 stroke l8 hearing no objections it is so decided i invite the cop to consider sub item 8e seventh review of the financial mechanism parties were

 unable to complete their consideration of this matter therefore consideration of this matter will continue at cop 27. hearing no objections it is so decided i invite the cop to consider sub item 8 f compilation and synthesis off and summary report of the in-session workshop on biennial

 communications of information related to article 9 paragraph 5 of the paris agreement i now invite the cop to adopt the decision entitled compilation and synthesis off and summary report on the in-session workshop on binal communications of information related to article 9 paragraph 5 of the paris.

agreement contained in document f triple c stroke cp stroke 2021 stroke l7 hearing no objections it is so decided i invite the cop to consider agenda item 12 report of the forum on the impact of the implementation of response measures this item was considered by the substa and the sbi i thank the chairs the substa and the sbi and parties for their hard work and for forwarding a recommendation to the cop following which i undertook

 further consultations i now invite the cop to adopt the draft decision entitled matters relating to the forum on the impacts of the implementation of response measures contained in document f triple c stroke cp stroke 2021 stroke l 4 to f triple c stroke kp stroke cmp stroke 2021 stroke l2 hearing no objections it is so decided i invite

 delegates to consider another section of the document going through we're just going to break away from that and keep our eye on it as we do that because tina steger from the marshall islands who's been negotiating for the marshall islands over the last few days he's just joined me and we've seen you in the plenary session over the last few hours um first of all let

me talk to you about the very last minute change in the text relating to cole you were pretty angry about it i think it's phasing down rather than phasing out what happened there was a conversation that we were not a part of and it was a real blow it was a real blow we had been told that there would be no further changes to the texts and uh we had already swallowed some changes that were very difficult to swallow and that came at the end and um [Music] as i said in my statement in the plenary there are other pieces of that

package that are critical that we fought really hard to get and that are part of the lifeline that people in my country need and so we took it but i needed to express uh the deep disappointment that we that we felt about having to do that india is a very big voice in the room naturally um and and i guess alex sharma as the president took the view that he wouldn't get this across the line unless he bowed to what they were saying was he does was it as simple as they wouldn't have backed the whole document had he not made that change as i said we weren't in the room and perhaps if we had been i could answer

 your question but i i can't tell you but i think for us particularly from the very small island states we come here to speak to be heard and [Music] for that to happen we need to be in the room so this is where we are we do have a package that has a doubling of adaptation finance which is something that the high ambition coalition really brought up brought to the table and there's also other pieces of the package

that reflect the leader statement that we put out last week so really really important pieces that you know we could not afford to lose and that we hope gives us a basis for more progress it has to this has to be the basis for more progress much more accelerated progress over the next year up to cop27 um john kerry said you have to trust us he said we we it's in there the text is in there now loss and damage um they are serious about engaging with it is there enough trust in the room that the big

powers will now engage in a serious conversation about loss and damage well he's on the record he said it he is he's on the record he said it in the room he said that they will engage and that's what our expectation is and we just need to hold him accountable to his for his words

 you've thrown so much into it particularly this last few days i don't know if people know but some of your delegation had to go home for quarantining purposes you chaired the high ambition coalition with john kerry and franz timmerman in there and did a really good job on that by all accounts but so how do you how do you leave here how do you leave glasgow are you are you happy are you angry how

what's your emotion tonight i mean i'm exhausted but we not only fought a good fight but we're gonna live to fight another day and we did so much that as a very small island country i can be deeply proud of and i can go home and say there's more financing for adaptation i can go home

 and say it is a package that addresses mitigation and the 1.5 and folks coming back to the table to keep that in reach those are what we needed so if everything that's adopted here all the agreements on methane on ending the internal

combustion engine on transport generally on coal if all of that is adopted and everybody's good to their word they say they say that we could be near 1.8 it's not 1.5 what would 1.8 mean to the marshall owners we need 1.5 and we need more

than saying and promises we need actions and we need those actions to be tied to better targets and we need to make sure that 1.5 remains the north star 1.8 i'm not fathoming 1.8 1.1 which is where we're now is also deeply is already deeply

 challenging before i came here i was receiving pictures from a cousin of a king tide that literally was bubbling up through the ground of my brothers right around my brother's house and i was getting pictures and videos of this flood where the water literally came up through the ground that's happening now at 1.1 so i don't want to talk about 1.8

Also Read

related post in the middle

This  photo collected by bbc news youtube channel

for those of us who do follow these things uh do excuse me but some of this is quite dry to the rest of us the layman like me i'm struggling to follow every section and subsection and all the numbers and letters that follow them uh richard black is with me and catherine abreo the executive director of destination zero um.

we'll keep listening because there will be a finale to this and we should tune into that but catherine i want to get your thoughts you were you were very animated the other day on on the stage when the third draft of the text came out and right at the death tonight we've had another change in that critical section about coal an intervention from india phase down, instead of phase out coal what do you make of it.

yeah, that's right so i think it's really interesting that the final hours of cop26 have come down to this like show off over language related to phasing out unabated coal power and inefficient fossil fuel subsidies which really goes to show you how much that language as weak as it already was is quite precedent setting in this space so we've now had a shift because of india's reservations with the existing text from phase out to phase down.

a lot of countries expressing their disappointment with that change getting on record that they would prefer for it to be stronger, but in all honesty i'm, you know while it is true that we should have been phasing out coal-fired electricity a decade ago.

i don't know that this change really makes a huge difference in the end what we've got here is a wedge in the door of accelerating the energy transition in this space and so what we're going to have to do over the coming years is really pull that door more open that's really interesting so you you are actually half glass full the fact that that section is in there that's

groundbreaking in and of itself for you it is for this space like i said so you know we had this conversation a couple of days ago right that for over 30 years we've been entering into these negotiations year after year there have been previous attempts to include language around phasing out fossil fuels in this space that have been totally squashed and finally we get a little bit of that text surviving i think the important thing to reflect on is that the energy transition is ongoing out there in the real world as are the movements of people across different sectors who are trying to accelerate that energy transition and whatever gets said here or doesn't get said here doesn't stop all of that it's just important that we make sure this process somehow reflects it and again we've taken a little step in that direction today it will be amazing richard to many people out there who are watching given what we're talking about and that is fossil fuels that it's never appeared before in the text i think.

 catherine actually said you said to me the other day it's a bit like talking about the cavity pandemic without actually mentioning the virus completely it's actually central to what we're talking about and it's the first time it's appeared in the test i know it's bizarre isn't it when you look at that point of view i mean the reality is of course that a lot of governments haven't wanted it to appear i mean you think about saudi arabia for example you think about some of the other gulf states you think about australia where the government still seems to believe it can plot an economic future on coal exports and they simply haven't wanted it included there is a dichotomy actually in the way that these governments treat that part of the science that deals with climate

 impacts and the way the world is warming and how they treat that bit of the science that tells you how to get out of the problem because we see in the text here are lots of references to the science impacts of two celsius impacts of 1.5 lead for you know urgent mitigation well then you look at the mitigation bit the the bit for example of the intergovernmental panel on climate change that deals with how to get out the problem how to reduce

 emissions coal phase out is all over it as by the way is oil and gas phase out and that's probably the next battle line over fossil fuels here which i guess may we'll be starting next year and just a word about alex sharma because he didn't pause it was an emotional moment and uh he had to just stop and we should mention that because it it all of this rests on his

 shoulders as the presidency i said earlier in the day actually he's not here as boris johnson's servant he is a servant to all 196 parties that are here and he has to find a landing zone for all of them but it did strike me i was watching as they were going around the room we were talking in the before the plenary the formal plenary

 started he went up to the indian delegation and he actually showed him the text and he pointed to a word and it must have been the moment that they had to change the word and then all hell broke loose, because john kerry wanted to get involved then and then the chinese,

delegation you heard the anger actually from the european delegation in the room and it it really did go down to the wire yeah this kind of diplomatic stuff does often happen at the conclusion of one of these cops we've seen other other cops before where you know there's a small huddle of a key country and someone comes up with the key piece of language that allows

 everyone to to get out the room i think the other thing that this says about alex sharma is that he's he's gained the trust of these delegations over over the past year and this is a really important thing to do because you know if if there's a personal relationship there if the negotiator trusts trusts him a bit and he trusts the negotiator and you know that then that that that that means an awful lot in terms of getting the deal over the line what role

 has he played catherine in the you were telling me um about you know the un representatives and the role that they've played in this out of sight what role has he played specifically as as the key sherpa so it is the role of the president to take

control in this moment where we're trying to get through those decision texts and really guide the parties into a consensus-based outcome but i think we've seen in the past there are some presidents who really drive that outcome to as much ambition as they possibly can we were talking earlier about those moments when

 we've seen a cops of presidents just gaveling through despite seeing hands of opposition being raised in the amongst the parties and we've seen other presidents who've taken a less confrontational route who've maybe sought consensus on a lower common denominator basis i think here you know we've really seen that alex sharma was committed to getting some of this important language committed to by the parties to figuring out how to make deals and how to make sure that everyone was on board with some of those

 language some of those pieces that that you know people had concerns over the language around what was just before we came away from um the room there one of the things that was quite interesting and and i i was asking a guest earlier where the climate road show goes next and obviously there's disappointment about a dialogue surrounding loss and damage and the fact that financial

instruments for adaptation aren't there but already you've got countries volunteering so hey we'll host we'll host a workshop to to get this on the road and so it it does move quite quickly yes it really does and by the way there's one other thing being here in glasgow that we should flag up at this point this process for agreeing the global goal on adaptation glasgow now

has its name on it so we've had the paris agreement we've had the copenhagen accords earlier on we have the bali road map we now have the glasgow chamomile shake work program on the global goal on adaptation right so whenever adaptation is mentioned basically glasgow will have it on it yes exactly this is quite an interesting thing i think that's going to happen so for in the paris agreement from six years ago we will uh develop a global goal on

adaptation has it really been uh clear what that means and for six years it's been an abandoned but now within two years we're going to have this i think we can we can we can get some of the idea of the importance of it by looking at things like the millennium development goals and then the sustainable development goals where there's a lot of technical work that goes on which is useful to everyone and it also mobilizes donors it kind of focuses their attention on okay this is the goal

therefore this is where we're going to need to spend some money so hopefully in two years we might have one and then it won't be the draft uh glasgow i think it will be the real glass together alex said at the outset of this that look it's not it's not the perfect document uh it's a big compromise there will be disappointment it depends where you stand on whether you see this as a successor or a failure but really the

 argument's more nuanced than that isn't it there's a bit in it for everybody do you see in it uh the road map to charm and and the the signposts along the way to 2025 i guess that that tells you that this decisive decade we are moving now in the right direction so we did get a little bit of that right i mean i think something to really

 acknowledge about the text that we have now is that it has clearly identified the end goal which is holding warming to 1.5 degrees celsius and so we've seen okay we're here at cop26 united to drive toward that goal have we seen though a reflection of the scale up of effort that is required to deliver on that goal we have a little bit of the rhythm of of ndc enhancement which is countries being called back to increase

their climate pledges there's now an expectation in there that countries will increase their climate pledges before the end of 2022 we have a little bit of an indication of when countries are going to be expected to come back and communicate more measures more

 policies toward achieving their goals so i think that is positive and let's also dwell for a moment on the fact that we've had more of a conversation on loss and damage in this space than we've really ever had before at a cop and i think that's good news okay i'm nervous that we're going to miss the the finale uh the big event

when the hammer comes down for the last time so let's go back into the room and just listen to some of it to adopt the draft decision as amended hearing no objections it is so decided i invite the cop to consider sub item 8d report of the global environment facility to the conference of the parties and guidance the global environment facility for 2020 and 2021

i now invite the cop to adopt the decision entitled report of the global environment facility to the conference of the parties and guidance to the global environment facility contained in document f triple c stroke cp stroke 2021 stroke l8 hearing no objections it is so decided i invite the cop to consider sub item 8e seventh review of the financial mechanism parties were

 unable to complete their consideration of this matter therefore consideration of this matter will continue at cop 27. hearing no objections it is so decided i invite the cop to consider sub item 8 f compilation and synthesis off and summary report of the in-session workshop on biennial

 communications of information related to article 9 paragraph 5 of the paris agreement i now invite the cop to adopt the decision entitled compilation and synthesis off and summary report on the in-session workshop on binal communications of information related to article 9 paragraph 5 of the paris.

agreement contained in document f triple c stroke cp stroke 2021 stroke l7 hearing no objections it is so decided i invite the cop to consider agenda item 12 report of the forum on the impact of the implementation of response measures this item was considered by the substa and the sbi i thank the chairs the substa and the sbi and parties for their hard work and for forwarding a recommendation to the cop following which i undertook

 further consultations i now invite the cop to adopt the draft decision entitled matters relating to the forum on the impacts of the implementation of response measures contained in document f triple c stroke cp stroke 2021 stroke l 4 to f triple c stroke kp stroke cmp stroke 2021 stroke l2 hearing no objections it is so decided i invite

 delegates to consider another section of the document going through we're just going to break away from that and keep our eye on it as we do that because tina steger from the marshall islands who's been negotiating for the marshall islands over the last few days he's just joined me and we've seen you in the plenary session over the last few hours um first of all let

me talk to you about the very last minute change in the text relating to cole you were pretty angry about it i think it's phasing down rather than phasing out what happened there was a conversation that we were not a part of and it was a real blow it was a real blow we had been told that there would be no further changes to the texts and uh we had already swallowed some changes that were very difficult to swallow and that came at the end and um [Music] as i said in my statement in the plenary there are other pieces of that

package that are critical that we fought really hard to get and that are part of the lifeline that people in my country need and so we took it but i needed to express uh the deep disappointment that we that we felt about having to do that india is a very big voice in the room naturally um and and i guess alex sharma as the president took the view that he wouldn't get this across the line unless he bowed to what they were saying was he does was it as simple as they wouldn't have backed the whole document had he not made that change as i said we weren't in the room and perhaps if we had been i could answer

 your question but i i can't tell you but i think for us particularly from the very small island states we come here to speak to be heard and [Music] for that to happen we need to be in the room so this is where we are we do have a package that has a doubling of adaptation finance which is something that the high ambition coalition really brought up brought to the table and there's also other pieces of the package

that reflect the leader statement that we put out last week so really really important pieces that you know we could not afford to lose and that we hope gives us a basis for more progress it has to this has to be the basis for more progress much more accelerated progress over the next year up to cop27 um john kerry said you have to trust us he said we we it's in there the text is in there now loss and damage um they are serious about engaging with it is there enough trust in the room that the big

powers will now engage in a serious conversation about loss and damage well he's on the record he said it he is he's on the record he said it in the room he said that they will engage and that's what our expectation is and we just need to hold him accountable to his for his words

 you've thrown so much into it particularly this last few days i don't know if people know but some of your delegation had to go home for quarantining purposes you chaired the high ambition coalition with john kerry and franz timmerman in there and did a really good job on that by all accounts but so how do you how do you leave here how do you leave glasgow are you are you happy are you angry how

what's your emotion tonight i mean i'm exhausted but we not only fought a good fight but we're gonna live to fight another day and we did so much that as a very small island country i can be deeply proud of and i can go home and say there's more financing for adaptation i can go home

 and say it is a package that addresses mitigation and the 1.5 and folks coming back to the table to keep that in reach those are what we needed so if everything that's adopted here all the agreements on methane on ending the internal

combustion engine on transport generally on coal if all of that is adopted and everybody's good to their word they say they say that we could be near 1.8 it's not 1.5 what would 1.8 mean to the marshall owners we need 1.5 and we need more

than saying and promises we need actions and we need those actions to be tied to better targets and we need to make sure that 1.5 remains the north star 1.8 i'm not fathoming 1.8 1.1 which is where we're now is also deeply is already deeply

 challenging before i came here i was receiving pictures from a cousin of a king tide that literally was bubbling up through the ground of my brothers right around my brother's house and i was getting pictures and videos of this flood where the water literally came up through the ground that's happening now at 1.1 so i don't want to talk about 1.8